Welcome to the Mind Over Law podcast where we break the traditional rules of practicing law. Our focus is helping you first to become a better, happier person, which in turn will make you a better, happier lawyer both in and out of the courtroom. We will combine mindset and energy practices grounded in ancient wisdom along with cutting edge neuroscience give you those skills.
Plus, I'll have deep conversations with some of the most thoughtful leaders that will share their life stories, their leadership journeys, and their legal practice wisdom. I'm Lexlee Overton and my promise is that each episode will offer practical insights and strategies to empower your law practice, your leadership skills, and most of all, your personal well being. Join me and I promise you'll become a better you lawyer and and leader. Welcome back to the Mind Over Law podcast where we explore what it really takes to thrive in the legal profession and not just survive.
Today, I'm so excited to introduce you to someone who's truly transforming the way lawyers grow, lead and succeed. Elise Holtzman. Elise is a former practicing attorney turned executive coach, consultant, and the CEO and founder of the Lawyers Edge. And for nearly 17 years, she and her team have been helping law firms build thriving businesses by developing stronger leaders and more confident rainmakers.
She's passionate about helping lawyers step into leadership with confidence, shift their mindset, and take ownership of their careers. Elise, I can't wait to dive into your journey and wisdom. Welcome to Mind Over Law.
Thanks so much, Lexlee. I'm happy to be here.
I having a transition from law into doing what I'm doing now. I'm fascinated to hear other people's stories about that. So how is it that you went from practicing law in New York to helping lawyers build practices?
I graduated from law school quite some time ago, and when I first started practicing in big law in New York City, I absolutely loved it. But I was working absolutely insane hours and I'm married to a big law lawyer. So it was a little bit like a bad movie in some ways where we were really two ships passing in the night. And then it really got even crazier when we had our first child.
So, so remember, you know, back then there was no such thing as part time and there was no such thing as remote work and there were no women's initiatives and there was no such thing as a coach. There were no women's bar associations, and I didn't have lawyers in my family. And so I'm working these crazy hours. I'm working seven days a week.
We quite literally had two shifts of babysitters. We had a Daytime nanny and then somebody who was on standby that we had to call by 5 or 5:30 if we wanted her to come. And so there were many days where we saw this baby asleep in the crib when we left in the morning, and then she was asleep in the crib at night when we came home. And we just looked at each other and thought, what on earth are we doing?
And so I tried to talk to a few people. I looked into some other roles potentially maybe in house or something like that. Didn't really find what I was looking for. And we were really running ourselves into the ground.
So I reluctantly concluded, rightly or wrongly, that I couldn't make it work. You know, if I had had a coach, maybe I would have come up with something different. If there had been women in leadership who I felt wanted similar things to me and could be role models for me, maybe things would have been different. And so I wound up leaving the practice of law, not entirely sure what I was going to do.
I then wound up being home with kids for 10 years again was really unexpected. And it almost became a joke where even my kids would say, you know, mom was born in a suit carrying a briefcase. They didn't quite understand how I had wound up being a stay at home mom. I did throw myself into every community fundraiser.
And I was on every committee and ran every committee and all of that sort of thing. So I treated every fundraiser like it was an IPO or something like that. I was a little nuts. And then at some point I made a decision for three kids in that it was time to figure out what I was gonna be when I grow up.
And I really was again, rightly or wrongly, afraid of turning my life back over to a big firm. And that was all I really knew. Again, no role models didn't really consider smaller firms. And so I said, I can't do it.
And I wound up finding out about professional coaching, deciding that it was going to be something that was a combination like the intersection of what I really love and what I thought I was good at. And I took a full year program, certificate program in coaching. I mean, that was probably 17, 18 years ago and never looked back.
And isn't it great to go from something that, you know, being a practicing lawyer and knowing what the challenges are and being able to take what you did in developing coaching and turn it around to help lawyers. I think it's so rewarding.
It's been remarkably rewarding. And it's also been kind of interesting how much has changed. And yet how much stays the same. And so some of the challenges that I saw back then are still here.
There are additional opportunities, additional challenges. But I really love participating in the legal community, whether as a volunteer or speaker, just always being involved in the legal community, because I really get to see what the changes are and I get to figure out what is it that lawyers need now and figure out how to create opportunities for them to get what they need.
Yeah, great. That leads me right into one of the questions I want to ask you about, because I know you have a specialty in really helping law firms with business development or lawyers. I imagine that you work with all sizes of firms. And so that is something that would have been an issue then and it still is now.
Just looks differently based upon how we've changed. What would you say are some of the key things that law firms really need to consider with business development? To do it differently and to do it well.
I think it's very important for law firm leaders to remember that their younger people do not know anything about the business of law. It is very rare occasion when somebody comes into a law firm at a junior level, even maybe at a junior partnership level, and really understands the business of law. Let's face it, nobody teaches us that stuff. And so you're just supposed to figure it out by osmosis somehow.
And there are so many people that come even into partnerships and don't understand what the metrics are that drive law firm success. And. Right. It's not just about making money.
That's part of it, certainly. But, you know, you're talking about people leaving firms because they're unhappy for whatever reason. That can really be tremendously expensive for a firm. It can also damage morale.
The law firm has changed, and this happens to all of us. It's like when your teenager says, well, you just don't remember what it's like to be a teenager. We don't. You know, we like to think we do, but we don't.
And so I do think it's important for law firm leaders to recognize that if they want people to contribute to the firm, if they want them to stay longer term and not be job hopping, it's incumbent upon them to provide the training and the coaching and the support that people need in order to understand that this is actually part of their job description. If you're a private practice lawyer, my view is that it is worth your while to take on that mantle and to understand that you're not just a lawyer churning out really exceptional legal work. Of course you need to do that. But you are also somebody who is in the business of marketing the firm's legal services and helping the law firm grow and achieve.
And in doing that, you are helping a law firm thrive into the future. You're helping the people who work there thrive.
Yeah, And I think that's so important. And I think it's very challenging for people when they're not used to that. So what are some tips that you would have if, like, say I came in and joined a firm and I'm an experienced lawyer, but I haven't had a partnership track. But I'm on a partnership track with this new firm and there is an expectation that I'm going to bring business.
How would I become a rainmaker?
A few things can be helpful to you. One is mindset. Many people think to themselves, I don't want to do this. This is icky, this is unseemly, this is unprofessional.
I don't want to be salesy. I'm going to have to pound my chest and tell everybody how great I am. And as a result, I know that I want to do this, but I'm going to sort of put my head in the sand and pretend that it's not important and pretend that it doesn't exist. And by the way, there's plenty of billable work on my desk, so I can just do that.
Even if we're not saying that to ourselves consciously as human beings. Right. We're driven by feeling good about ourselves. And so if I have a choice between doing this thing on my desk where I know what to do, I'm really good at it, I can make a client happy, or this speculative thing over here on the side that I'm not sure how to do.
And I feel kind of yucky about. Guess what? I'm going to revert to the billable work on my desk every single time. And so the first thing is a mindset shift and understanding that all business development is, is helping people who need it, delivering value to people in the legal and business communities or maybe the larger community.
If you're in a business to consumer type of a practice, you're delivering value to them, you're becoming friendly with them, you are writing articles for them, you're appearing on panels, you're connecting them with other people. You're just being a decent human being and going out into the world and sharing what you know in order to help other people. And let's face it, one of the reasons we all went into the law was we did want to help to be in a service business, or we would have gone and done something else. I also think as part of that mindset, understanding that you can learn a new set of skills, behaviors, and habits, and that is what you need to do.
You're going to take some of what you already do, and you are going to adapt it a little bit to be able to develop these professional relationships, to help other people, and to be able to stand in service of somebody when they need it. So I think that recognizing that you are not an old dog who can't learn new tricks, you can learn to do new things. It's not wholesale like you have to learn something you've never done before. You've been doing so much of it already, just not realizing that they're similar skills.
And then once you shift your mindset a little bit, get some help with it, right? This doesn't have to be a solo sport. Depending on the size of your firm, you may have internal marketing and business development people who can sit down with you and help you map out a plan. The principles of business development tend to be the same for everybody, but in the execution, it can be different based on your geography or your practice area, what you like versus what you don't like, your personality, all of that can vary.
And so I think that a lot of it is also about being intentional. And we get so sucked into what we're doing that the time goes by and we don't make time to focus on the things that are really important to us. And I would say that if you are somebody who wants to make partner, or if you're a partner already and you want to make equity, or you want to increase your compensation, or you want to have influence in the firm and be a decision maker or earn higher compensation, then it's important to make time for those things. And that's where people get really tripped up.
They say things like, elise, you don't understand. I don't have time for this. I have so much work on my desk. And of course, it's true.
Lawyers are super busy people. And whether you're billing hours or whether you're doing alternative fee arrangements, we're essentially trading time for dollars. So it's absolutely true that you're busy, and yet we know that everybody has the same 247 as everybody else. So what I would encourage you to do, if you're interested in being able to make rain, is to take a little bit of time, at least every single week, put it on your calendar, treat your own Calendar with respect, treat your own appointments with respect, and spend a half hour or an hour, minimum a week just sitting down and figuring out what you're going to do.
Right. Because it's important not to engage in what you might call scattershot marketing. Just running around and doing something over here and doing something over there and, you know, throwing spaghetti at the wall and hoping something sticks. Really figuring out what makes sense for you and having a plan as you go about it is critical.
And making time for research, strategy, and then execution is absolutely critical.
Yeah. So much to unpack there. I want to go back to the mindset shift. I think that is, like, the key, like you said, if you think about.
We want to call it rain making, it's really sales. And all sales relationships are just relationships. So sales is just building relationships with people, building trust with people. But I think the key to what you said is that if we say, oh, this feels icky, I feel salesy.
I don't want to do this. I just want to work on my cases. It's because there's some kind of thought that, oh, this is all about just bringing in money. And I think you were right when you said, you have to think about that.
This is your opportunity to be of service to people. And if you really just focus on that. And I can remember early on in my career my dad saying to me, and I was like, you know, it just seems like with. With what we charge, et cetera.
And he's like, do you believe that what you do helps people? I said, absolutely. He's like, then that isn't. It's an exchange for that.
You have to look at it as, this is the opportunity that you have to help more people. And the fact that you charge for that is a business concept so that the business can stay sustainable so you can help more people. And it really was key in helping me to see it differently.
I think your dad was 100% right, and I say that a lot, too. It's like, you're here to help people when they have a goal, when they have a challenge that they need help with. You're there to help them. Yes.
Are they going to pay you for helping them? Sure. And there's nothing wrong with that. You pay for your groceries, you pay for services.
You don't have a problem giving people money for the expertise or the experience that they provide. And the same is true for what lawyers do. I think the mindset challenge comes from the way the profession started, which is it's this very academic. We're here to help people.
We're very professional, sort of like a country club mentality of we're sort of above all this sales, down in the dirt kind of sales stuff. And the fact that it is. It is sales in the sense that we are letting people know what we can do for them. But it doesn't have to be sales.
E. No one is asking you to go. Or at least I'm not asking you to go out there and beat your chest and tell everybody how great you are and say, hi, I'm here to suck the money out of your pocket. Right. That's not what we're talking about.
We're really just talking about standing in service of others. And yes, there's a lot of competition out there. And so the question is, why should someone hire you? And it's a really good question to ask yourself.
Some people say, well, I don't know. I'm just the same as everybody else. But here's the thing. You're not.
Right? You're not. Because even the way you talk to people, your personality, your philosophy on things, how you treat other people, some people are gonna be scorched earth litigators. Other people are going to be collaborative litigators and try to come to some sort of consensus and resolution.
That way. There are a lot of ways in which you stand out. And some people are gonna resonate with that and want you. And some people are gonna say, you know what?
I do want the scorched earth, and I don't want the person who is a little bit softer in the way she handles things. And that's fine. In some ways, you wanna repel the wrong people so that the right people come to you. And so it's okay if not everybody wants to hire you because they think that somebody else would be a better fit for them.
In many ways, that just means that you're being very clear about how you are different and the value that you deliver in the marketplace.
Mm, I think that's so true. You're spot on with that. And it makes me think about sometimes about the way that we're wired as lawyers. And I was this way 30 years ago as a law student and coming out and wanting everything to be perfect, right like this.
It. I can't make a mistake. And like, so thinking like, well, I might not be as good as the next person. Why would you hire me?
It just makes me think about this mindset of perfectionism. And I think for women lawyers, it can be even that There can be even more pressure with that And I'm curious what your advice on working through and shifting that kind of mindset, because I think it's a very big barrier for lawyers.
I think it's a huge barrier for lawyers. And as you say, I think it's particularly impactful for women lawyers. And these are just generalities, right? I mean, it can be similar for men, different for women.
It all depends on the person. But when we are talking in generalities, what we know is that women, girls are still being socialized in many ways for perfectionism, right? For perfection. So we've got to get the good grades and be nice to Mrs.
So and so and always put your feelings below everybody else's and always be a helper. And, you know, the bag has to match the shoes and the nails. You know, the fingers have to match the toes and the whole thing and to be perfect. And this is something that was originally raised for me by a woman named Reshma Saojani, who wrote a book called Brave Not Perfect.
And she also has a TED Talk, if you don't want to read a whole book. But she talked about this difference. So that girl. Girls are socialized in the ways I just described, in short, to be perfect.
Whereas boys, in many instances are still socialized to jump off the top of the monkey bars and get dirty and make mistakes and take risks and even break the rules sometimes, because after all, boys will be boys. And so what happens is we take that with us into adulthood. So. And I actually created a program on perfectionism specifically for women lawyers, because I think that this is something that many women feel and don't necessarily talk about.
Now, you take these perfectionistic women, they did really well in school. So it was good in the beginning, right? We did well in school. The teachers liked us.
We were the president of the club, all of that sort of thing. Do well in college, go to a great law school, all of that stuff. Then we get into the work world, and as we become senior, the needs of the role and the job changes. So now it's not just about dotting the I's and crossing the T's.
And now you can have technology proofread it for you. But when you and I were young, we were sitting up at night proofreading documents. Right now we're accepting, expected to have different skills. These are leadership skills, things like taking risks, things like not needing to have consensus, making unpopular decisions, maybe saying no, you know, when somebody expected us to say yes.
And so there is, I think, a conscious shift that has to happen for some women where they say, you know what? It's okay for me not to be perfect all the time. And look, we all know. I mean, I remember doing this program in a room of 250 people, women, and asking them, who in this room thinks that a human being is capable of achieving perfection?
Well, of course not. One hand went up. But meanwhile, many of us are trying to make it happen anyway, and we're driving ourselves crazy doing it now for both men and women. We get into law school and we have perfectionism kind of pushed on us as well.
Right. Everything has to be perfect. And so that's kind of a perfect storm, no pun intended, of what happens to us when we get into law firms. So then it becomes, just put your head down, do the work, turn yourself into a good lawyer, grind out perfect paperwork every single time.
And that's what makes you a good lawyer. And we know there's a lot more to it than that, particularly in private practice. I mean, I would say in any job description for a lawyer, there's more to it than that. But certainly in private practice, where people who are able to direct business, bringing in business for themselves and others do tend to be considered more equal than other people, if you will.
Yeah, I think that that's really thoughtful. Breaking everything that you just said about, like, the differences in the skills set that is needed, especially when it comes in as leadership, is one of the thing, as women, is that sort of unspoken rule of, like, emotions don't belong here. So when you're saying, shove things down, don't let them see that. And I actually believe that as a leader, emotional intelligence is key.
And so that means having awareness of your own emotions, knowing how to regulate that, and also to be able to build a culture where you actually can sit down and help your team with what their emotions are and how to increase performance and to deal with the stress and all of that. I had a leader today say to me, you know, I'm really good at being a lawyer, but this whole thing about having to coach people and, like, I feel like I'm parenting people. I was like, no, no, no, no. There's a difference between mentoring and knowing how to do that and have an awareness of where the people you're working with and what they need to be able to grow, that all comes from emotional intelligence.
And the reason why you feel like you don't not as comfortable as that is because we've been trained to be that way. And I think it's actually really a key to be a really inspiring leader, to inspire People to greatness.
To your point, we in the legal profession tend to put people in leadership positions who have no leadership experience.
Right.
And that's not their fault. That's the way it works. It's sort of like, well, you know what, Lexlee, you're a great lawyer. You have a good book of business.
You've been really loyal to the firm. We'd like you to be managing partners. I don't know how to do any of that. And I also think that what happens is that when people get to a certain stage, whether it's a junior partner, mid level partner, as you become senior and people are starting to want you to become a rainmaker and they are starting to put you on committees and put you into leadership roles, those things tend to happen at the same time.
So you go from the top of one pile when you make partner, let's say, to the bottom of another pile. It's a completely different job description. All of a sudden I don't know what I'm doing. I'm not at the top of the food chain anymore.
I've got to figure this all out. Nobody's teaching it to me and they're not necessarily particularly adept at it either. So I'm not really sure where to look. And I think it can be very overwhelming to feel like, well, wait a minute.
For the first half of my career or the beginning of my career, I was doing great. I just kept doing what I was doing over and over again. R and repeat. It was working for me.
And now all of a sudden there are all of these other skills that I'm supposed to be adopting and I don't necessarily know how to do it. And so I'm actually very empathetic towards lawyers who feel like all of a sudden things are changing and I'm not necessarily prepared for this thing.
I think it's why it's very important, like the work that you do and I do and having coaching and someone that comes in and helps to teach that skill set, have awareness of what it is, a something that can be learned is just that it takes awareness and some tools to be able to do it. So I think it's so important. It seems a lot of times, I think in cultures like law firms, it's just not thought of. It's just like, oh no.
Well, here's the framework of what we do. Just make sure we do that. And at the end of the day we can have lots of business strategies to get us to business goals. But the thing that's in between Those two things are people, and you have to learn how to lead.
And inspired people to perform well.
Absolutely. And I think that law firms are becoming more and more aware of that. I think that law firm leaders, you know, there are so many resources out there. And if you are a law firm leader or you are someone who is coming up the leadership chain and you're paying attention, you're getting involved in the legal community, you're talking to peers, you're talking to other law firm leaders, you are gonna start to hear them talking about these things, you're gonna hear them talking about culture, you're going to hear them talking about talent.
Things look very different for our children's generation than they did for our generation. I saw some research recently and it wasn't law firm based, but it was generation based. That something like, I think it was like 73 or 74% of Gen Z or younger millennials have had like three or four jobs in the first few years of their employment. And so what are we going to do to retain the people that we think are really good for our organization?
Things like culture, things like talent retention, things like understanding that even clients don't necessarily stay with a law firm forever. How are you going to make sure that you're taking such good care of your clients and those relationships are so sticky that they wouldn't dream of going anywhere else? And so there's a lot more to it than just grinding out really good legal work.
Right. And I think that's why the research that you're seeing about that, about these younger generations, the motivation is not money. The motivation is more around mission and wanting to belong to something and to contribute. And that's what's going to keep them long term.
And. And you're being able to retain them. If I'm seeing that, if you don't start to build a culture that has that and then you're. They're losing people.
It's so expensive too.
It's so expensive. And I think, understandably, there are so many senior lawyers and law firm leaders who get so irritated by this whole thing. They get really irritated by the younger generations. And by the way, the younger generations are irritated by the older generations.
You know, equal opportunity. And this is nothing new, right. Since cave mom and cave dad had their cave kid, right. This generational gap has been there.
I think that it's just gotten bigger because of the 24 hour news cycle and social media. And also Covid where people started realizing, you know what, I don't have to live a certain way. I can live this other way, or you know what? My parents ran themselves into the ground.
And so I want to do really good work and serve my clients, but I don't want to run myself into the ground. Or I may live a really long time, but I don't know if I'm ever going to be able to retire. So I've got to be able to enjoy myself now and not wait forever. And so there are lots of things that the younger generation is thinking about.
I encourage people to try to understand the younger generation rather than to just adopt stereotypes and make other generations bad. You're not winning by doing that. So I do a lot of work now on generational differences because they are stark. And it doesn't mean everybody's lazy, and it doesn't mean they don't want to work hard, and it doesn't mean they want to become managing partner the first day or general counsel the first day and all of that sort of thing.
The kind of stereotypes that are getting thrown around out there. So while it's understandable to be frustrated, I think it's incumbent on all of us senior types to learn as much as we can and have those conversations and leverage the emotional intelligence so that we can create healthy workplaces and retain the people that we want and have them turn into the colleagues that we know they can be.
Yeah. Wow. Your insight, so amazing. I could go on and on and on.
But let me wrap up with the three questions that we always ask our guests. So first is. Is just what's one thing that you're excited about right now?
Okay, can I have two things? Yes. So one is that I am going on vacation end of this week, which is very exciting because it has been a very long time since I've done that. So.
Yeah. So I'm looking forward to that. And just sort of lying on a beach chair with a drink with a little umbrella in it or something like that. And I know you were on my podcast over the summer, Lexlee, and we talked a lot about burnout, and I definitely have been seeing a little bit of that in myself and others.
So I'm gonna take that vacation. What I'm pretty excited about professionally is I'm going into the fourth year of a program called Ignite. So it's a women's business development accelerator. And we're just start Open up registration for the 2026 program that starts in March.
I love these women so much. I've met such amazing people through this program. They seem to really be enjoying each other's. Company and the work that they're doing in the program.
So I'm excited about that.
Congrats. That's amazing. Great. Okay, what's one rule you would tell lawyers to break?
You've given us some, but does anything pop to mind right now?
Younger lawyers often get told that it is your job to put your nose to the grindstone, do the work, bill the hours and not pay attention to anything else. You have to become a good lawyer and don't worry about things like business development or leadership or networking or any of those things, because this is your number one job. I agree that it is your number one job. It is not your only job as a more junior lawyer or wherever you are in your career right now, if you haven't been thinking about it, make up your mind that there's more than one part to your job description.
So, yes, you are a lawyer. You are also in the business of growing yourself as a rainmaker and a leader. That doesn't mean that anybody expects you to run out and bring in a half a million dollar client overnight. What it does mean is that you have the opportunity to grow and learn.
So you have the opportunity to grow your skills, even if it's just keeping in touch with your wacky law school friends because they're all going to go off and do certain things. You're going to be able to provide opportunities to one another and support one another throughout your careers. So I think that just practicing some of those skills, things like networking, things like getting involved in volunteer organizations, things like helping somebody write an article or helping somebody put together a workshop or a webinar professionally, is going to help you develop the skills that will enable you to become a rainmaker and a leader when the time is right for you. But don't wait until you are somehow a 10 year lawyer and then all of a sudden you think, oh my God, I don't have any of these skills.
I don't know how to do any of this stuff and I should have learned it already. Do it now.
Yeah, great advice. Okay, last question. Since we're talking about, you know, one of my passions is about burnout. What's one practice that you do that helps you to be a healthier, happier person besides finally taking a vacation?
This question is making me laugh because I am probably the poster child of what not to do. In many ways, I like many lawyers, I'm very type A. So if anybody's ever done a Myers Briggs or type coach, I am an estj. And that SJ is What a lot of lawyers are.
So we're very driven and we love time and structure and we've got to check off the boxes all the time. There's always a list, there's always something to check off. And so I definitely fall into that category. One thing that I do is I've kind of learned to accept that about myself is that that's just kind of hardwired into me.
I think all of us need to really accept our hard wiring and not beat ourselves up about who we are, but recognize that we all have strengths and blind spots. And so who you are is just right. But we do have to take care of ourselves. So a few years ago, I. I forced myself to go and learn Transcendental Meditation.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, it's kind of funny because I am definitely one of those people who would say, oh, you know, I was so skeptical. It's so woo woo, and you know, that's not who I am. And couldn't even sit still long enough to close my eyes. That kind of thing.
When you do Transcendental Meditation, you're really supposed to do it twice a day for 20 minutes a day. I absolutely do not do that. I will tell you that. I used it a little bit every day, typically before going to sleep.
And I think it's made a difference for me. And so even if you're one of these hard driving lawyer types who can't slow down and your on button is always on, there's no off button. Nobody could have been more skeptical or just sort of more against the whole idea than I was. But even a little bit of that has helped me a lot.
Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I did Transcendental Meditation. It's a game changer. And I think you're so true that the part of the resistance I see when we talk about these kind of practices is that, oh, it's just going to take time.
And it actually, I mean, five to ten minutes a day, you know, done consistently since they're showing six to eight weeks, like even some type of mindfulness practice drastically changes stress levels and increases happiness and creativity and all kinds of things. So it's a really good point that I see a lot. People are like, I don't have the time for that. You really don't have the time not to do it.
Yeah. And I would say one more thing about that is that from a perfectionism standpoint, I mean, I was literally the person. I mean, nobody's gonna make more fun of me than I am. I was literally the person who was like, I'm not doing this.
Right. I'm not doing it fast enough. I can't figure this thing out. Like, okay, Elise, like, calm the heck down.
You know, it takes time to kind of just sit quietly when you're used to running, running, running all the time. But if you don't judge yourself and you don't try to give yourself, like, an A plus for meditation, like, that's literally not what it's about. Had to train myself to just let it go a little bit and to just get whatever little bit of value out of it I could get out of it. You know, I'm not sort of pushing it on other people, but I do like to encourage other people to find something, whatever it is.
Maybe it's like staring at a flower every day for two minutes. It doesn't matter what it is. But to have something to fall back on in those times where it just feels like it's pressing down on you, I think can be really valuable for people.
Yeah, that's such a great point. Yeah. I had a teacher who said to me that meditation is not about getting better at meditation. It's about getting better at life.
I like that. Yeah, that's amazing.
And the staring at the flower. There's actually some science about just taking a few minutes and making yourself bored, like staring at a wall and not doing anything else because we're so constantly on the go, like you talked about, that it's a constant dopamine hit, and that we actually become insensitive to that because it's so much in the system. So that actually taking moments where you just make yourself force yourself to be still, to stare at a wall, to be bored, like, it actually helps your brain to function better.
That's interesting. I actually didn't know that, but I think that I probably could have suspected that that would be borne out through research. Because while I could only describe myself as indoorsy, I had a friend who had a T shirt once that it said indoorsy, and I thought that was, like, the best T shirt I had ever seen. But we wound up getting a house on a lake a few years ago as a second home.
And what I noticed right away, and now I am more outdoorsy than I was. But what I noticed right away was that even walking house and looking out the window at the lake, I didn't have to be on the lake. I didn't have to be in a kayak. I could just look at the lake.
And my joke was immediately go from type A plus to at least type A like without doing anything. But somehow that looking at something that's calm, that's constant, that's nature. Look, if I had heard myself even 10 years ago talking this way, I would have been eye rolling myself. My eyes would have gotten stuck in the back of my head somewhere.
In my older age, I'm much more open to this stuff and so I do encourage people to think about what would work for them.
Yeah, that's another really great tip. Thank you so much. I've enjoyed this. Such a delight.
And we will definitely put on our the show page how women can find out about your ignite group that's starting in March. So thank you so much. Rachel.
Thank you. Thanks so much. Lexlee.
Thanks for listening to today's episode of Mind Over Law. We hope that you're walking away inspired and ready to embrace your life and law practice in a more holistic, healthier, happier your way. Don't forget to hit subscribe and let us know what you think. Leaving a review helps us to spread the word to others.
Be sure to follow us on socials for all the behind the scenes fun and sneak peeks of upcoming episodes. Until next time, Remember, with intention, anything is possible.
